"Theology must be political if it is to be evangelical"

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:06] Speaker B: Welcome to the Truth Exchange Podcast. This is a weekly program with Dr. Jeffrey J. Ventrella, where he answers questions from subscribers around the globe, answering questions about worldview, cultural apologetics and other miscellaneous items. I'm your host, Joshua Gilo, and this is another edition of the Director's Bag. First off, we have a question from roland from Jacksonville, Florida. He writes, Dr. Ventrella, I've been following and benefiting from your dictus now for a few months. I learned about them through a friend, and I have really had a lot of my thinking changed in terms of Christian witness as well as in understanding the roles of the government, the sword and the church power of God, but not through coercion. And would you address on the podcast in the near future a discussion about how Christians should view the government balancing needs within the nation versus caring about what is happening to, say, places like China, Israel or Poland? A lot of guys my age are saying we need to let the world deal with its own issues and we need to deal with ours. Are situations that need addressing first, our priority? [00:01:26] Speaker A: Well, I really appreciate the question and those kind words. We're delighted that Truth Exchange, even as a think tank, is in fact ministering. And I think that encourages to know that we're just not flash in the pan. We're very much desiring to apply all of Scripture to all of life in a way of cultural apologetics. The question's a very important one, and it's really a question of jurisdiction. What is the jurisdiction of, shall we say, Caesar or the state? It is certainly the jurisdiction to be a minister of God. So then the question rises, does God care about those persons or those situations outside of Caesar's jurisdiction? I think the answer is yes, because the kingdom of God is not an isolationist kingdom. The kingdom of God is very broad and covers all of creation because Christ is Lord. However, we need to be careful that we don't start mixing and matching and thinking. Like my concern as a Christian, for example, for the genocide that's occurring in the Uyghur population or most recently in the Congo, where Islamic extremists beheaded 70 Congolese Christians. We ought to be concerned about that. And so the question arises is what's the state's role in allowing us to express that concern so we can, as Christians, petition our own government, which of course has foreign diplomacy powers, and try to influence them to do things which would diplomatically intervene with respect to persecution and injustice that's occurring. I think that the reaction that I'm hearing of a lot of young, particularly Men is we're just going to isolate and take care of our own problems. The problem is our problems are not simply rooted in our own geography, that there are problems that we can anticipate and we can preempt that are offshore. And in fact, under our constitutional republic, we do have the duty politically to be involved in that. So as Christians, we want to help channel that international political power in a way that comports with the justice of God. And so there are things that can be done. And I think it's a bit black and white to try to draw the line at the, you know, international water level or something like that. [00:04:07] Speaker B: Charity from Dallas, Texas writes, this is regarding the dicta that went out a few weeks ago on the Office of Faith with Paula White. She wrote, seems like this office would have a double edge effect. While many Christians see this as a win, I fear that having this office as an open door to not enforce as and she quotes you, to not enforcing, recognize and promote what amounts to generic faith, but actually would push for a state religion. We are back with a state run church. [00:04:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I appreciate that question, Charity and I. It really shows you're thinking through some of the issues and we're great that we're provoking thought. We want to be thinking Christians with respect to the events in our culture and in our public square. The Office of Faith or its idea was really, I think, initially conceived by President Bush II, H.W. bush, and one of my good friends, Tim Gigline ran that. And the idea was not to establish any church that would be both unwise and unconstitutional. The idea instead is to not create barriers for people to publicly exercise their faith on the same terms and conditions as others. In other words, it's not like religion is not anthrax or crack cocaine that we've got to protect our citizens from. Rather, because we are humans made in the image and likeness of God, we are inescapably religious. And similarly, nations can't be neutral toward religion. They can be objective toward it, but they will take a view concerning the ethics of any religion. That's not to say that the state's sword is to coerce belief. It is not. But it is to say that there are transcendent norms, ethics, morals that we ought to recognize because they're good for human flourishing. Things like we ought not to defame others, things like we ought not to murder others. Things like we ought to protect property and not allow theft. Those are actually religiously understood concepts, but they're good for all people. So, yeah, I think we would draw the line at establishing any state run church. And I think in my dicta that address, I was concerned that it made it seem like religion was just one part of life instead of over all of life. So that's why I can give it kind of a cheer, but not a robust cheer. [00:06:58] Speaker B: Jared from San Diego, California, this looks like this was regarding the last dicta he says. Dr. Ventrell, would you clarify the statement you quoted? Theology must be political if it is to be evangelical. I can't reconcile a theology that is political and good news if it then is one that becomes enforced by politics. [00:07:25] Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's an important question. I think the person I'm quoting there is showing us the inherent political nature of the Christian faith. And that starts from the fact that, number one, God is a law giver as well as Creator. And that law giver, that being who structures all of reality, does so via law. And law is a political endeavor. So in that sense our Creator is political. And so theology must have a political understanding. Second of all, Christ is Lord. That's the foundational confession of any Christian. It was the earliest confession that the Christians had. And so if Jesus is Lord, he holds a political office. And so derivatively, our faith is political not in the sense of the elephant or the donkey or poisonous partisanship, but in the fact that it has public or I should say policy based considerations. When it's lived faithfully, loving our neighbor as ourselves has political implications. So that's the idea there. And so belief is not coerced. But to say that politics is off limits or is contrary to an evangelical confession would be to neuter or to denude Christ holding a political office. He is Lord of Lords, he is King of kings, he is subduing his enemies, including, as Psalm 72 tells us, those who hold political offices. And in fact he calls those rulers and kings of the earth to kiss the sun, to submit to him, in other words, to take their initiative from him in a way that coheres with what Jesus is calling them to do in their called offices, which is why Paul can say that even Nero is a minister of God. Now he may be faithful in that, he may be unfaithful in it, but the reality is he has no authority unless Christ had given it to him. And so because Christ is the dispenser of that authority, that ruler is accountable and responsible to Christ. And thus the faith must be considered political in order to hold the political operators accountable and responsible. [00:09:58] Speaker B: In the same vein, Owen from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania writes Dr. Ventrella, thank you for the clarity you give in the Dictas and the podcast. I love the mailbag. It is in my top listens to during the week. Just a suggestion. I would love to hear you do a segment of Christian Worldview summarizing the miscellaneous items that you don't address in the dicta. So here's my question from the recent Dicta Consistent consider and this is in quotes. So he's quoting the Dicta. Consider how the Christian worldview, while Christians lacked political power and social capital, nevertheless disrupted, then charged or changed the culture and the laws armed with the Christian view of reality and its ethics. These early Christians, though lacking worldly power, were not silent, nor did they just preach the gospel in some narrow truncated way like only focusing on individual souls. End quote. I raised this at a gathering with some of the men at my church and was asked in return to prove from scripture where we are taught how to vote or for when laws like public pool should be closed. I feel like a Christian worldview of life should be more than the power of God, but only on a Sunday kind of life. I welcome your thoughts and wisdom with many thanks. [00:11:16] Speaker A: Yeah, thank you. I really appreciate you want to tether convictions to our ultimate standard, which is the Scriptures. So let's do it this way. Way Jesus says in his extensive sermon, the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew's Gospel, he says, seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, or righteousness could also be translated justice. The word there for first, in my understanding, is the word that means first, not in sequence but in priority. And so the Christian who follows Christ is to be one who is active, pursuing the very kingdom of God and the ethics, the justice or righteousness that that kingdom sets forth. That's number one. That righteousness and justice isn't simply in our little hearts, isn't simply in our immaterial souls, so to speak. But it's here and now, exercising how we live. We get that from Jesus says that we are salt and we are light. He uses metaphors in that same context. And he says, you're salt, but don't lose your saltiness. Oh, and he says your light, but don't hide it under a bushel. Rather let your light. It's personalized, not the church's light. Let your light shine before the men that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. And then he immediately says, do not think I came to abolish the law and the prophets. I did not come to abolish them, but to confirm or to sustain them, to underscore them, if you will. The point being is that light and salt are metaphors. Jesus then tells us that they're expressed in good works, in other words, conduct and behavior. And that the content of those good works, conduct and behavior, are that which coheres with the very law of God. And so the very law of God touches all of life. It's how we live. We are to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Both Deuteronomy and Jesus quotes that as well, right before this passage in Matthew chapter four. And so from Scripture we see that we are to have an ethical vector to our behavior that seeks to build for the very kingdom of God which is comprised of justice and righteousness. And that is to be evident. You don't hide your light under a bushel. You don't lose your saltiness. So in other words, there should be evil evidence that we are living for Christ. And that evidence is publicly apprehensible. We can see it, we can taste it, we can feel it. And it should depict the very righteousness of God. So from Scripture we see that that's how we are in fact to live. What happened was largely during American evangelicalism of the 19th century, there was reduction that occurred. We flinched. We could not hold our own with some of the higher criticism that was coming out of Europe. And so we decided to simply quote, focus on the fundamentals. Well, those fundamentals are important. They're non negotiable. They're not the only things we're to do or to believe. And if you look at the great reformational writings, including confessions and things, they did not limit the Christian life to let's get people saved and go to heaven. That wasn't their understanding. Rather it was a whole person gospel that was designed to sanctify our entire being and our entire lives, our families, our businesses, our work and so on and so forth. So I hope that helps. [00:15:19] Speaker B: That does help. Dr. Ventrell, maybe you've heard this. And I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to pin it this way. What do you say in response to the Daniel Pilgrim worldview? That is to say we are Daniels in a Babylonian captivity. We are simply pilgrims passing through and our focus should be of the kingdom mindset or the church is mission only mindset. [00:15:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I've heard that a lot. I have a couple thoughts on that. First, let's take Daniel. Daniel was deeply involved in the political machinery and was a leader in there under submission in Babylon. And yet did not compromise his personal ethics. So I think Daniel's a pretty bad example for people who don't want to be engaged in the public square. I think that's a real mistake. And in fact, Daniel proclaims God as the Creator and all the. The good stuff that's there. So I don't think that's good. Let's remember too, Daniel's exile was temporary. He abided until he didn't anymore there. The second thing I'd say is we need to be really careful with taking various metaphors and making that the paradigm of our Christian life. What do I mean? Over pilgrims. So everything's about pilgrims. Well, we're also called farmers, we're also called sowers, we're also called soldiers, and so on and so forth. So anytime the scripture uses an analogy or a metaphor, we need to be careful not to make that the be all end all. So I think there's some reductionism going on that folks are talking about. Pilgrims. Remember that this is our Father's world. Satan is a squatter, Satan is being defeated, and the gospel is defeating evil wherever exists, starting in our own hearts, then also wherever Satan has infected things. And so it's really a mistake to think that we are. I think it's Tim Keller who puts it, we are aliens, but we're resident aliens. We are here lawfully to be able to conduct kingdom business in a way that dissipates darkness, in a way that sanctifies that which was formerly sinful. And God is subduing his enemies, allowing us to do that sometimes in very overt ways, sometimes in very incremental ways, which is, of course, the parables of the kingdom. That which is small becomes large. That which is insignificant changes the whole loaf. 11 and so on and so forth. And so I think that I would rather focus on what Jesus said to focus on which is tangible, the kingdom of God, and then work for that kingdom and watch God grow that kingdom quantitatively, grow that kingdom qualitatively, because the pilgrim, understand, should understand this. Your marriage happened on a particular time, in a particular place. But I hope that your relationship with your wife is not the same as it was 10, 30, 40 years ago. No, it grew in understanding, it grew in depth, it grew in sanctification. Well, the same is true in the broader aspects of society. And we see this over and over again as Christians who were utterly powerless. They didn't simply say, well, you know, Rome's terrible. And yeah, I see that. Abortions rampant. Oh, yeah, I see that there's sexual promiscuity. Well, better you than me, pal. So I'm not doing it. No. If you look at the Didache, which was probably written certainly first century, maybe as early as 70 A.D. the didache is a writing that summarizes the Christian faith and it puts forth a way of life and a way of death, kind of that kind of like, you know, choose this day whom you will serve. And what's interesting about that, it expresses the way of life in very tangible, social, public ethics says the way of death is sodomy, immorality, abortion, infanticide. All the issues we think are, quote, ooh, divisive cultural issues are in fact issues that were front and center with respect to the early Christians. And they did not flinch in fear. Rather, they flourished in faith even though they were predominantly in the parts of the culture that lacked power. And so this idea that we just bounce around and, oh, whatever happens, I'm just floating around. I'm being a little bit sarcastic, but I think needfully so, because I think it's just a mistaken paradigm and it's certainly not scriptural and it's certainly not historical when the Christians have lived most effectively. Yes, there are Christians who have been martyred, but they don't go out seek martyrdom. You don't see that in the Book of Acts there are martyrs. But they escaped. They prayed for deliverance. They continued to press for the kingdom. And so it kind of set me off there, Joshua. But this is a huge mistake that I think people are making, and it justifies not loving their neighbor as they should. That's the real tragedy here. [00:20:49] Speaker B: This concludes a recording of the Director's Bag. For more resources from Truth Exchange, please visit. Visit us online at www.truthexchange.com. you can follow us on X as well as Facebook. For more updates and content related to Truth Exchange. Be sure to join us next week for more questions from the Director's Bag. I'm your host, Joshua Gilo, and this is the Truth Exchange podcast.