God Calling and Jesus Calling

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:03] Speaker B: Welcome to the Truth Exchange podcast. This is the unique program where we have conversations about worldview all through the lens of oneism and two ISM. This lens is based on Romans 1:25. We've exchanged the truth about God for the lie and worship and serve creation rather than the Creator who is blessed forevermore. I'm your host, Joshua Gilo and with me is Mary Weller and Ms. Pamela Frost. We have been discussing the worldview of Does God speak today? And to those of you who are just tuning in, we've already touched on issues of Neoplatonism, on emanation and a little bit on special revelation. Does God speak today? And the answer is yes, God does speak. But as Christians we have a worldview and a structure in which how that operates. We believe that God has revealed himself through creation, but he has revealed Himself also through special revelation, which is what we have in the Bible. If you want to hear God speak, open your Bible. If you want to hear him audibly speak, read the Bible out loud. Now that's all in fun, but it's true. And to counter that is a pagan worldview, or what we call a oneist worldview or a non binary worldview that says God speaks, but he speaks in a way that is contra to his word. And so this podcast, we're going to be dealing with that specifically on two books which Pam is going to dive into for us. Jesus Calling and God Calling. Pam, thanks for being on the program. It's been a long time and so great to have you with us. [00:01:44] Speaker C: Too long, too long. [00:01:48] Speaker A: Nice to be with you guys. [00:01:50] Speaker B: Tell us a little bit about Jesus Calling and the. I think for most people, if you heard about Jesus Calling, it doesn't necessarily mean you've heard about God Calling. Tell us about those two books and what should we know about them? [00:02:04] Speaker A: Okay. Most people have heard of Jesus Calling because it's extremely popular. I think it's still listed as the top three books. Different versions of the God Calling of Jesus Calling series are number one, number two, number three on the top top selling Christian books list. And the reason Sarah Young wrote those books is somebody. She was a missionary in Japan for two terms and then in Australia to Japanese speaking people with her husband. And somebody had sent her the book called A Christian Devotional by by two anonymous listeners called the book is called God Calling. So when she started to read God Calling, these two ladies had sat in meditative silence with open minds. You know, they had stilled their minds, quieted their minds and they started listening with pencil and paper in hand for special divine communication from God. And they received communications from a spirit calling itself the living Christ. And so they started recording these messages and they started getting so many messages from the living Christ. And I just have to say they eventually compiled them into the book God Calling. But what they were actually doing was serving as spirit mediums, channeling a spirit claiming to be the living Christ. And we'll see from the the content of God Calling that it was clearly not the living Christ of the Bible who was channeling this information to these ladies. They were taking spirit dictation. I mean, they were writing it down as it came to them. But the themes are of a universal spirit, which I looked up a definition of universal spirit. It refers to the interconnection of all beings in divine essence, which transcends individual identities as. As everything is absorbed into cosmic energy. Okay, does that sound at all slightly biblical, like something the Lord Jesus Christ would say? And in this book, everyone is divine. The divine is in everyone. And I'm getting some of these quotes. I want to share this book because Warren Smith did a tremendous job in this book. Another Jesus Calling and many of these quotes, I'm just drawing directly from his work. He analyzes and so he analyzes brilliantly both Jesus Calling and God calling in that book. I have actually seen these quotes myself because I have multiple copies of God Calling myself, so I know that these are well documented. So anyways, universal spirit. And then God is in everyone. And one of the quotes is from God Calling, wherever soul is, I am. Think of Exodus chapter 3, when God reveals himself to Moses in the burning bush. And as the I am. But lest there be any further confusion about what the meaning of this spirit is, it goes on to say, I am actually at the center of every man's being. So that is pure One ism. There's no distinction between the creator and creation. It's a clear violation of Romans 1:25. [00:06:45] Speaker C: Pam, they're saying this about every human being, not just Christians, correct? [00:06:51] Speaker A: Yes. Right. Yes. [00:06:52] Speaker C: So an unbeliever still has that spark of God at the center of who they are, according to this philosophy, whether redeemed or not. Is that the case? [00:07:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. But the idea of the spark of divinity going back to Dr. Peter Jones work and especially going back to his book Stolen Identity, he's very clear in Stolen Identity that we do not have a spark of inner divinity, that that is a completely neo pagan New age Gnostic concept. [00:07:34] Speaker B: Right? Right. So we bear his image. [00:07:38] Speaker C: Right. [00:07:39] Speaker B: We are not divine in Any way. [00:07:42] Speaker C: I can hear people saying, I guess where my mind was going, I could hear people saying, well sure, because the, the Holy Spirit, you know, speaks to believers in a way that unbelievers don't experience. But. And so you could try and Christianize it there. But this is. Yeah, so that's where my mind was going with that question is that it's not only a misunderstanding of us as image bearers but. But an understanding, a misunderstanding of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as well. [00:08:14] Speaker A: Especially because. [00:08:15] Speaker C: Because it's a, it's applied to both believer and non believers. So I can hear Christian ears kind of trying to reconcile that because I was trying to, to do that as I was listening and then it dawned on me know that this is not even talking about believers, it's talking about everyone. So that's. [00:08:30] Speaker A: And in believers we do not have a spark of inner divinity. No, no. And, and God is not at the center of our soul. I mean that's. That, that statement right there denies the creat distinction. We have the Holy Spirit, we are sealed by the Holy Spirit in, in by. Through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ in his atoning blood. But we do not have an inner spark of divinity within us. [00:09:02] Speaker C: Thank you for clarifying that. I think that's so important. [00:09:06] Speaker A: And the book God Calling also emphasizes turning humanity into divinity. And I just one quote when I look upon. When I. Sorry, I need to start that quote. When I took upon me your humanity, it was with the desire of raising that humanity to my divinity. So this is always going to be a theme in anything that is counter the Bible. And the book God Calling is filled with these kind of frankly blasphemous things. I mean to say that the goal of this supposedly living Christ is to turn humanity into divinity, that's blasphemy. I mean that is a lie. That's the lie of in the Garden of Eden. And then it goes on. I'll just give a couple more. The book God Calling also replaces sound doctrine with new truth. And it's the. The Spirit within God Calling says I am telling you truth, revealing them, not repeating oft told facts. And think of that as sound doctrine. Meditate on all I say, not to draw your own conclusions, but absorb mine. So you're putting yourself in a very open, receptive spiritual state to go beyond sound doctrine, which is what, what the implication is here. And to open yourself to the spirit realm where you're going to receive assurance of it and actually absorb spiritual assurance from this Spirit. And I should say too that these two ladies who were listening in meditative silence for the spirit to speak to them, they were actually serving as mediums, channeling a demon. I have to say it very clearly and this is evident by the themes of the messages and what is actually infuriating. And I think I've had a conversation with you, Mary, a couple of times about this. As I read the book God Calling, I get infuriated and want to throw it across the room. It blends scripture into all this blasphemous denial of the creator creation distinction. And one of the verses it uses, and this is the one I just lost it, I did yell at the book is Jude 24 and 25. Now unto him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to make you stand in the presence of his glory, blameless, with great joy to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority before all time, now and forever. Amen. Well, they the God calling this, the supposed living Christ puts that verse on a passage that is utterly blasphemous. So you can see, you can see how confusing this is. This would be to the average Christian. And I should also mention that the Encyclopedia of New Age beliefs written in the, I think was published in 1996 by John Ankerberg and John Weldon in their section on channeling. They have a section of God Calling because they recognize it as a channeled work. And as the women who took the dictation, the spiritual dictation as mediums they were functioning as mediums from a demon impersonating Jesus. And they actually it was very shocking to me to read this in their book that God Calling has twice made the evangelical best seller list as the classic Christian devotional. Twice in 1986 and 1988. So I, I not really my aim here is not to criticize the person of Sarah Young for being deceived by this book because many I and I actually looked it up on ChristianBooks.com and it is still recommended and it's still a bestseller on their list. It has a four and a half star positive rating and they highly recommend it as a Christian devotional. Yeah, yeah. Unless you have some worldview training, Christians can easily, can easily fall into that deception. [00:15:09] Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. [00:15:10] Speaker B: Yeah, that's well said, Pam. There is certainly a. That lacking Christians in general, they lack discipline in these, this area and in terms of understanding and knowing doctrine and how to apply it, we also lack in this age discernment. And there's, there tends to be a Willful, unfortunately, ignorance and perhaps even this is part of the strong delusion. [00:15:34] Speaker A: Yes. [00:15:35] Speaker B: First Timothy 4. 1. Now, the spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons. We clearly see that in God Calling and we see it echoed in the book Jesus Calling. And that book is, it's marketed in all kinds of ways for just its own, best selling as a book, but it's also rebranded and purposed for children. It's rebranded and repurposed for as a devotional, as a journal Bible and so on. 1st John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world. I have heard this, that it's Gnostic and I'd love to hear why is it Gnostic? Because when I have heard people on various podcasts and YouTube channels say, well, Jesus Calling, this is Gnostic and Gnosticism, and I think they're right. I don't disagree. I mean, is not Gnosticism just this ancient old heresy? [00:16:48] Speaker A: Gnosticism is based in it. It originally starts in the Garden of Eden when Satan offered Eve the forbidden knowledge of good and evil. So Gnosticism, though it has its roots in Christian heretical movements. But, but overall the Gnostic urge is always going to be towards secret hidden knowledge that is not available to average people, to the normal Christian. So you're going to want to go beyond and try to grab that special secret knowledge that's only available through, frankly it's attained through meditative trance states. And that involves meditation and being, emptying your mind and seeking direct spiritual revelation and manifestation. So, and as far as. [00:18:08] Speaker B: I think of the scripture where it's in the Psalmist, it says the secret things belong to the Lord. Yes, there are certain things that we as humans, finite creatures are not to know. [00:18:21] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:18:23] Speaker B: And that's what Gnosticism promises. It promises those secret things to reveal. [00:18:31] Speaker C: I love what you said, taking it all the way back to the garden. And this, this directly applies to what you're saying, Joshua, where Satan says to Eve, did God really say God had spoken plainly, he had given those instructions and Satan's implication was there's something more for you to know. Did God really tell you that? So maybe we need to go find this other information that hasn't been revealed. And I'd never really thought of Satan's question in that context. I'd not really thought. I've I with a lot of people think of Gnosticism as an early Christian heresy. But you're right Pam, that that question of secret knowledge really does start right there in the garden. I had never put my finger on that that way. [00:19:16] Speaker A: And I think, I think that just from the work of Dr. Peter Jones, because one ism starts in the Garden of Eden. Actually one ism starts much earlier with Satan and I, we, you and I, Mary, were talking about this Yesterday in Isaiah 14 where Lucifer says I let me just get the Isaiah 14, 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds. I will make myself like the most High. So Satan, who is a created being, who is a creature, was determined to eliminate the creator creation distinction and elevate himself to the position of divinity. I mean he really wanted to throw God off of his divine throne and take the place of God. So that's what he offered to Eve in the garden. Well, and you think about it, that temptation in the Garden of Eden was because of Satan's jealousy over mankind having been created in the image and likeness of God had to take dominion and rule over the earth. He wanted that. So gnostic urge is always going to be to eliminate the distinction between the creator and creation and to elevate mankind in particular, but nature in general to that position of, of divinity, of creator, of, of the divine source. And I'm still this kind of got me started on the quest because there is a quotation in Jesus Calling that is in my view it's a definitive statement of oneism, of non, of non duality, of non binary spirituality. [00:21:43] Speaker B: Okay. [00:21:43] Speaker A: This called Jesus says I am above all as well as in all. So that is the only statement that is that definitive in Jesus Calling series of books. But there's also the idea of emanation. Yes, that, that when Brenna Scott, who wrote Christian Journaling or Psychic Channeling, which is a book I really recommend that people get. And so when she read that chapter in Peter Jones book, it just clicked in her mind. Oh, there's issue, there's incidences of the word emanation in Jesus calling. [00:22:45] Speaker C: Pam. Emanation? [00:22:46] Speaker A: Oh yes, thank you for asking Mary, because you're so right. We need to define our terms. [00:22:53] Speaker C: Well, the co host can follow along. [00:22:58] Speaker A: Well, so that everybody can understand. I mean I, I like to define the term emanation by the 3rd century Pagan philosopher Plotinus who is the father of Neoplatonism. It's the idea that there exists a universal source that is unknowable, indefinable and indescribable and unintelligible that exists as source somewhere out there. And somehow this source, this universal source of divinity which has no name, is undefinable, vague, nebulous, that it starts to overflow itself in decreasing, descending, not decreasing, in descending levels of its own divine essence. So the first, the first emanation from source, from the divine source, the one is mind, Nous. It's a universal mind that it's not in terms of thinking, in terms of intellect. That's not what nous means in Neoplatonism. [00:24:39] Speaker B: Right. [00:24:39] Speaker A: And then mind noose emanates into the descending level of the world soul, which then emanates into material existence. And I'm greatly simplifying this process. I mean, it's extremely complex. And the problem, okay, so so far you can see that everything is emanating from divine source in a descending order, so that everything is divine. So right now we've ended up with a divine creation. Everything in creation is divine and undifferentiated. It's united. The problem with the theory of emanation, and particularly in Neoplatonism, is when the material world, well within the material world, the soul begins losing its unity of essential deity and fragments as it enters into individual peoples as individual souls. I hope that sense. [00:26:04] Speaker C: Yeah, it is complicated, but it does make sense. That's a very clear trajectory. [00:26:10] Speaker B: I'm reminded, Pam, of the. In your definition about. Of one ism, in that you said that I'm above everything and yet within everything. It reminds me of Kurt Rudolph, who you probably remember Dr. Jones citing. Kurt Rudolph was. Was one of the leading scholars on Gnosticism, and he said this about Gnosticism, that it is dualism on a monistic background. [00:26:42] Speaker A: And it's also this idea of, that Francis Schaeffer addressed of the upper story and lower story kind of duality, or where spirit is superior to the physical body, which is a completely unbiblical concept and is kind of the basis of the contemplative spirituality movement as well. And that leads into contemplative mysticism, meditation, emptying the mind, and also just within the system of emanation. And I, I hope people can follow Neoplatonism a little bit. I tried to greatly reduce it, but simplify it. But the solution that Plotinus, his. His student Porphyry recorded it in the Enneads is the solution to being entrapped in individual bodies is the contemplative formula of purgation, emptying the mind, illumination, starting to remember unity and divinity from where you fell and union, and obtaining the soul's Reunification with the divine 1. [00:28:22] Speaker B: Deuteronomy 18:10, 11. There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through fire. One who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer or. Or one who casts a spell or a medium or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. And we see that over and over. You had mentioned necromancy at one point, either in a document or now could talk to us about that. [00:28:51] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And this is so appalling. The book, God Calling even recommends the practice of communication with the dead. It. It says. It's a long quotation, but it's worth hearing. Your deceased loved ones are safe in my keeping, learning and loving and working. Theirs is a life of happiness and progress. They live to serve, and serve they truly do. They serve me, those they love. How often mortals rush to earthly friends who can serve them in so limited a way, when the friends who are freed from the limitations of humanity can serve them so much, better, understand, better protect, better plan, better even plead their case before me. Better you do well to remember your friends in the unseen, accompanying with them. The more you live in the unseen world, the gentler will be your passing when it comes. [00:30:11] Speaker B: And so here, this is a book that is. Laid the foundation for Jesus calling. Is there that kind of language in Jesus calling as well? [00:30:19] Speaker A: Not Jesus Calling is far more subtle. [00:30:23] Speaker B: Okay. [00:30:24] Speaker A: But I just, I. I just want to emphasize that the inspiration for Sarah Young to write, to sit in a meditative posture in silence, waiting with pen and paper in hand for special revelations from the presence, from the mystical presence of Jesus, was inspired by the practices of these two listeners who wrote that book, God Calling, in the 1930s. And she eventually said that the book became a treasure to her and that while she knew that the Bible, that God communicated with her through the Bible, she yearned for more. And so she started practicing, like I said, with stilling and quieting her mind of thoughts, to listen for the voice of the person she believed was the Lord Jesus Christ. And so the messages. And at this point, I really want to recommend this book by Brenna Scott, who's done just an incredible amount of work in analyzing the messages of Jesus Calling. And it's. It's just. She's done a stunning amount of work. So I really, Holly, highly recommend her book to you, to anyone who really wants to understand. [00:32:06] Speaker B: Well, we've talked about necromancy. We talked about the spark of divinity. Let's talk about the new truth and what does that mean in Jesus calling? What does that mean in God calling? And what. When. When people are talking about a new truth, what is that a reference to? [00:32:23] Speaker A: Well, it's special revelation. And I actually will give you a really incredible example of this. This book, the book called Jesus Speaking Today, subtitled A Devotional Inspired by Jesus Calling and Jesus Today, Two books by Sarah Young. This man had learned from Sarah Young to sit, and his name is Matthew Robert Payne. And you can get this book on Amazon. I do not recommend that you do. But he sat in silence, meditating and completely believing that he was channeling. He wouldn't have called it that term, but he was channeling a spirit presenting as Jesus and getting new revelation, which he says in the forward to his book. You can't test this against Scripture because it's new revelation. So, I mean, so how authority, how authoritative is that? Well, it's beyond the authority of Scripture. [00:33:43] Speaker C: So I was using exactly that. When you gave the instructions that they had in God calling, saying, don't question, just listen to us. So you're not allowed to use your rational mind or compare to scripture. You just have to take it as the Spirit sends it. And so this. That's. Even he's explicitly following their instructions. That's amazing. [00:34:05] Speaker A: Yes. And he also says, you have to accept what I'm writing with these messages from Jesus with childlike faith, because they can't be tested by Scripture. It's like, whoa. [00:34:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:20] Speaker A: And, you know, it's just. And that's kind of really with you, when you think about it with Sarah Young, the idea of receiving special messages from Jesus and writing them. And I mean, how many books has she written? I mean, they're just. They proliferated. And they'll probably keep being proliferated as publishers find new formats to present them in. I would assume they have sold 45 million copies. [00:34:53] Speaker B: The going and sitting and asking Jesus to speak to you, being quiet, listening, writing down, and then really operating as upon that word. You're living for that word. You're living on that little nugget that you've received as if that was truly God speaking to you. And you're going about it as though God spoke to me. God spoke to me. But it downplays something really important here. It downplays that. That's right. It downplays the word of God. It downplays that means of grace that God has given to his church through the preached word. We no longer carry about or care about what is preached to us on the Lord's day we don't care about what the scriptures say. And so we're going to ourselves to listen to a voice that we're claiming and just labeling as Jesus. And that's dangerous. [00:35:48] Speaker A: Yeah, very dangerous. Very. That's very, very dangerous. And like I said that the, the book God Calling is quite blatant. I mean, it violates several things in Deuteronomy 18, like being mediums and spiritists and being channels for the dead, you know, calling dead very specifically. But Jesus Calling is based in a meditate. Well, I should say this. One of the inspirations besides God Calling that Sarah Young had was Psalm 46:10 which says be still and know that I am God. And that verse has been so misunderstood, mistranslated, misrepresented. It's not saying. It's not preparing you for meditation right. At all to enter a meditative trance state. That's not what that verse means in context. You know, the mountains are falling into the ocean, the seas are roaring and God is saying, cease striving and know that I am God. You know, don't be upset by all of these natural calamities and horrible things that are going on. Be still and know that I am God. I will be exalted above all the nations. This is a word. [00:37:33] Speaker B: Yeah, indeed. [00:37:35] Speaker A: Foundational strength and hope to our cognitive minds. This is not an invitation to mystical, but so many that way. [00:37:49] Speaker B: I was just in a devote doing a devotion with one of my sons this morning. We were, we were going through the great morning and evening devotional with, with Charles Spurgeon. And the text of the devotion was on that very subject about being still in God's presence and watching God work and move and versus this, this kind of new special revelation that's supposed to come to you. Last question as we start to wrap this up is what would you say, Pam, to those who would argue and I think I've even heard. I've heard this from Jesus Calling apologists, if I could put it that way, is. Well, look, we're not really saying that you have a new special revelation from Jesus. These are. But these are Christian principles all throughout the book of things that you could that Christians should do. So really, we're really just asking for the Spirit to remind you of Bible verses. That's all this is. That's all this book is. How would you respond to that? [00:38:53] Speaker A: That. Well, I'm really glad for that question. Thank you very much, Joshua. Because the book repeatedly ti teaches people to quiet their minds and enter a. A meditative kind of State in preparation to hear Jesus. And it still the mind breathe deeply and. And repeat the name of Jesus over and over and over and over and over again as a mantra which is part of meditation. And one entry in Jesus Calling says, make your mind like a still pool of water, ready to receive whatever thoughts I drop in. I mean that. That's a New Age concept. That is the passive mind. Scripture never calls us to a passive mind. It speaks to our cognitive mind and meditation in scripture. And just go to Psalm 119, meditate on the word of God. On God. It's very actively turning to the word of God, meditating in his Word, his law word, as it said. And there's nothing mind emptying about it. And God is not going to. If you steal your mind like a quiet pool of water, God is not the one who is going to drop the thoughts into your mind. That is a very dangerous. It makes you open and receptive to. Open and receptive to deception, to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons. Like you quoted first Timothy 4. 1. And there's tons of New Age terminology laced throughout the book God Calling. I just will list a few of those. The fifth dimension is referred to and I don't remember if you guys are young enough to know the music group. The fifth dimension. [00:41:21] Speaker B: Yes. [00:41:24] Speaker C: I have a young mind. Joshua, I might be older than you are, but. [00:41:30] Speaker A: Well, at the fifth dimension. What it means is the fifth dimension is. In spirituality refers to a higher state of consciousness characterized by love, unity and interconnectedness. Moving beyond all limitations of the physical world and beyond all distinctions. Mom, it's just another name for all these New Age in occult terms. They mean the same thing. Just nuance it from different angles. And also the book references. One of the quotes in the book is, I am all around you like a cocoon of light. Yeah, the cocoon of light. What is a cocoon? And in the New Age, the cocoon of light is very specifically talking about transforming humanity into divinity, transforming the caterpillar of humanity into the butterfly of divinity. That's specifically what it means. Yeah, it's a metamorphosis. Yeah, it's metamorphosis. So I. I am sure that Sarah Young had no understanding of what these terms actually meant. I'm not trying to imply that she did or that she intentionally knew what was being, what was being channeled to her by a spirit calling himself Jesus. I don't think she had any understanding at all. And also, there's an entrance in Jesus Calling that says, I am like a radio And I believe this is written to kids. The Jesus of Jesus calling says, you know, quiet all distractions. Turn off the TV and turn off the radio to be, you know, to focus on me. But this, this quotation is different. It's, it really, I am like, I tune in like a radio and said I believe to children. And the, the radio in the New Age, the concept there is that everything, the spiritual and physical worlds are vibrating with energy. And so when you tune in like a radio, you're trying to dial, you're trying to physically dial the tuner of the radio into the higher spiritual realm. And it's in preparation for channeling spirit guides. That, that's what it means. So, and then just if I could share a couple of others. Oh, the word co, the idea of co creating is in Jesus calling. And co creating is probably best understood by the New age guru who's now deceased, Barbara Marks Hubbard, who said that the idea of co creation is with God. It really implies that we are God. There's no separation between us and God. We are one with God, no separation, and we are in God with him, co creating as God a new reality. So, and also the term divine alchemy is found in Jesus calling. Alchemy is the process of turning humanity within occult spiritualism. Spiritual alchemy refers to the process of turning humanity into divinity. I mean, these themes just repeat, they recite over and over because there's nothing new. This is what it's all about, turning humanity into divinity for the express purpose of opening their minds to being controlled by spirit guides. If you really think about it, that's what Satan's goal is. He wants to control humanity so that humanity is not under the control of God and functioning in the way world under his authority. So, you know, in divine alchemy it says it's the, it's the alchemy of divinity turning humanity into divinity. Yes, and also the concept of the gold cord. The gold cord is a term in New Age spirituality that is symbolic of metaphysical connection that links individuals to a higher realm of consciousness where they meet spiritual guides, spirits and divine energies, and experience divine energies. So I mean, these terms, again, I'm sure Sarah Young had no idea what these terms mean, but the list goes on and on and on. I mean, there are tons of, tons of New age terms that are just laced in throughout the teachings of God calling. I mean, of Jesus calling. [00:47:29] Speaker B: Yeah, it's amazing that the storefront of New age spirituality seems as though it's shut down, but yet the product and the substance is very much here to stay, and it's deeply wrapped in from our politics to education and of course it's in our churches. You had said that of the oneist worldview, the pagan worldview, Paganism as best defined as being people of the earth, people who worship the earth rather than the Creator. Dr. Jones has said for years that oneism eliminates distinctions. Yes, because when all is one, there is no distinctions. And so there is no distinctions between male and female. There is no distinctions between God and man. And so you, you become God. And you you make what you will. Wrapping it up, Matthew 24:5 and this is the last verse that you had sent to me, Pam, and I think it's fitting for many will come in my name saying I am the Christ and they will lead many astray. People are being told, you don't need church, you don't need the word of God, you don't need the means of grace, you don't need the Creator creation distinction. That's why Truth Exchange exists. And so for our listeners, if you've enjoyed what you have heard, be sure to like and subscribe to the podcast. Be sure to share as well as please prayerfully consider partnering with Truth Exchange and you can visit us online at ww.truthexchange.com in the coming weeks. We have some special guests Will Spencer, Cal Beisner and others. I'm Josh Magilo and thank you for listening to the Truth Exchange Podcast. [00:49:26] Speaker A: Sa.