[00:00:03] Speaker A: Welcome to the Truth Exchange podcast, unique program where we have conversations about worldview all through the lens of one ism and two ism. This lens is based on romans 125. We exchange the truth of God for the lie, worship and serve creation rather than the creator who is blessed forever. I'm your host, Joshua Guillot. And in the streamyard studio we have Doctor Jeffrey Ventrella, Doctor Peter Jones and Mary Weller on the program. This is a special edition. We've not done one of these kinds of programs in quite a while, but what we are aiming to do is to give our listeners an update on what is going on with truth exchange, give a little bit of brief history on our years of service to the church and what the projection for the next 20 plus years looks like. Again, truth exchange has been in ministry for over two years. 20 years. And we are looking forward to the Lord's blessing of how we can help churches today for another 20 years. So Mary, I'm going to kick it over to you, and we have a little bit of an outline, but if you could, based on the outline that I've provided for you, which is threefold in nature, it's we are. Truth exchange informs the public, truth exchange equips the church or the saints, and truth exchange protects the future. We're going to do this a little bit out of order. Let's talk about how truth exchange equips the church. Why was truth exchange necessary? If you could engage with Doctor Jones and Doctor Ventrella on the importance and the history of truth exchange.
[00:01:45] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. You know, Doctor Jones, you and I have talked about this a little bit in the past and it came up recently in a conversation again with our friend Christopher Yuan.
But my testimony, I think, is one that kind of mirrors the trajectory of what you were seeing when you kind of accidentally founded this ministry.
And I represent, I think, very well the type of Christian that you are trying to speak to. When you started truth exchange, do you remember kind of what the overwhelming sense was that you had that caused you to start talking about all of this?
[00:02:30] Speaker C: Well, I was very interested when I came back from France to the states as to what was happening in the culture.
I left America in 74, I think it was to go and work in France, and I come to America to study in 64, I think it was. I get some of these dates wrong, but these years blend into one another and I come over to the states in order to get theological training and I managed to get that. And then we were called to go and teach in France and we did that.
And then in what date did we come back over? Mary, do you remember?
[00:03:34] Speaker B: I want to say it was 91 or 92, probably 91.
[00:03:41] Speaker C: When I came back to the states, I realized that the America that I discovered in 64 when, by the way, I came over with my friends John Lennon and others, though, on different airplanes, unfortunately, America I discovered, which was very christian then I was really amazed at how Christian America was in 64 with so many christian colleges, so many christian universities and churches and organizations.
And I thought that we were close to going to heaven. But as we say, I thought I died and gone to heaven. That's not quite true. But anyway, that's what I saw when I came over in 64. When I came back over in 2019, things had changed so much.
[00:04:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:50] Speaker C: And I was amazed by that. And I began to read and study and think, and I wrote my first book in English.
What was the date of the gnostic empire strikes back? It was 2019 even.
[00:05:09] Speaker B: Well, it goes even further back than that. It goes into the 1990s, so, I mean, previous.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I, you know, at that time. So when you first came onto my radar as anything other than the father of a friend of mine, and I had a vague sense of what you did, but I was working at the time in medical science education, and the book, the Da Vinci Code, came out, and I read that book along with all of my coworkers. I remember, even where we were traveling at the time, all of us were discussing the Da Vinci Code in San Francisco. And I, as sort of the token Christian in that group, was being asked a lot of questions about the claims that were made in that book, which, of course, was a fiction book, but claimed to be making true historical claims about the history of the church. And, you know, this sort of gnostic idea of these other secret gospels that had been lost. And I was ill equipped as a Christian to speak to any of that. I really. I was troubled by the book. I knew that there were things that weren't true, that I was being presented with things that weren't true, but I just didn't quite know how to speak to it. And that's when I picked up your book, cracking the. Cracking Da Vinci's code. And that was an absolute game changer for me.
[00:06:40] Speaker D: You were.
[00:06:41] Speaker B: Yeah, you were speaking to christians like me. I had been raised in the church.
I was open about my faith, but I had not been equipped to answer this new spirituality that I was presented with all of a sudden. And we had heard things about new age, but it all seemed out there somewhere. And suddenly I was being confronted with it in my own friendships. And I didn't have an answer till I got to your book. And I remember the relief and the joy that I felt in reading your words in that book and seeing the footnotes. So it wasn't just, oh, I know this guy who said some things that contradict what we're hearing. But no, here's the historical record. Here is his expertise. He has read these things that this author Brown, is referring to. And it equipped me to be able to speak to people, Christian and non Christian, about what was true and what was not. That was a. That was a huge deal for me as a Christian at the time.
[00:07:51] Speaker C: I think what I remember discovering with what the new age represented was that it was simply a new form of ancient paganism.
And I. I was driven to try to define paganism.
[00:08:08] Speaker B: Right.
[00:08:09] Speaker C: It sounds very important and strange, and yet there is a simple definition of it. And I discovered that when I stumbled over what Paul said in Romans 125, they worship the creation rather than the creator. You don't have to say anything else but that if you know what theism is and what paganism is, to worship the creation or worship the creator. And it seemed to me that Paul was saying in that verse, the only possible worldviews you can use to try and understand life, either you worship creation or you worship the creator.
And that inspired me to keep going and reading and writing, and that's been the basis of truth exchange. I called worship the worshiping creation one ism, because when you worship creation, you decide that there's only one reality, and that's you and everything around you, right?
Worshipping the creator. I call that two ism because God is different than we are and that we have to take account of the God who is other than us. Thus, there are two realities in the world in which we live, in which we think. And that makes the worldview of the christian faith and theism as recognizing two realities. So either one ism paganism or two ism biblical Christianity.
[00:09:59] Speaker B: Well, and what I find interesting is, as I think through this timeline, is, so you had discovered that you were ostensibly. I mean, not ostensibly, you were a New Testament professor now in California, but you were being invited to speak all over the place around this time that I was discovering what you were doing. And it was directly affecting my christian walk and my christian witness. And people were asking you to speak not on your New Testament studies so much as how to understand this cultural shift that was happening. And I believe that's around the time that you met one doctor Jeffrey Ventrella, if I'm not mistaken. Jeff, where did you discover Peter? Because I think that he came and was working with you around that time at Blackstone.
[00:10:55] Speaker D: Well, actually we met at a conference sponsored by another entity in the nineties, interestingly enough, and we shared the stage. And I remember listening to Peter, I had done some work in the area of idolatry. Herbert Schlossberg's book written in, I think, 83 or 84 was very helpful to me. The thesis being that civilizations, you know, public theology, civilizations don't rise and fall. Rather, there's a superintending God who is judging them by their idolatrous situations. And so that was an interesting premise and I kind of percolated on that. And then I've done some reading about how our own sin largely flows from idols in our heart. You know, Hosea talks about that the leaders took idols into their heart. Well, then I hear this guy, this british Englishman guy at this conference, and it was like, huh? There was tremendous explanatory power, the way Peter could articulate at not 30,000ft but 100,000ft, some of the things that were going on. And it wasn't just, you know, cute or anything like that. It was biblically faithful, theologically rigorous, yet understandable, and that began to segment things. So then when I left the practice of law full time and began to think about curricula and what does the next generation need to know?
I had been pitched on the very first couple think tanks by a mutual friend, Alfred Poyer. Doctor Poyer said, you got to go to San Diego to go to one of these things. Well, then that was just like candy store stuff. Put it better. It's a barbecue. Barbecue store, yes, substantive, not, not cotton candy. And so we became more and more familiar. Then Peter began teaching for us in the Blackstone legal fellowship, and I devoured everything, you know, he wrote, began to see a lot of linkages there and applications, foundational applications for the things I was interested in, public theology, jurisprudence, the correlation between theology and ethics. So John Frame, who's a mutual friend, as wells, very deeply influenced me. And the idea of theology as application runs deep into my DNA. And so I always want to ask the questions, so what, what do we do with this explanatory power? How then shall we live those kinds of issues? So that's kind of how Peter got into my veins. And of course we became friends and had the privilege of serving on the truth exchange board for many, many years. And I think I've been government for probably a decade or more. So we've really seen some really neat things happening with respect to that. Anyway, that's kind of the backstory there. Mary. So Peter doesn't remember we met in Fullerton, California, but I do remember that well.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: And so that's, that's, I think this amazing connection in all of these stories is, you know, as I was recognizing my own need as a Christian, you as one who is educating christian professionals, were also recognizing a need. And so this ministry really was, I say this respectfully because I am so appreciative of the upbringing that I had in the word, being ministered to faithfully every Sunday through the preaching that I heard. But there was something missing in some of the equipping of the church that truth exchange was answering on many levels because I was, you know, working, you know, in a, in a completely different industry. You, Jeff, were looking for someone in the legal setting who could do this worldview equipping. Peter, you were being asked by churches all over the country to go and answer this need. And it's amazing to me that, so we're talking, I mean, that was maybe 2000, 2001, when I ran across cracking da Vinci's code.
Jeff, you're talking about the late nineties, and here we are in 2024, and some of the questions have changed, but the need for truth exchange has not changed. That same hermeneutic, that same differentiation and how to apply it between worship of the creation and worship of the creator is applied and necessary even now on the topics that we're dealing with today.
[00:15:56] Speaker D: So, well, let me just interject there, Mary, because one of the things we're seeing over and over and over again in the last, probably seven to ten years is a crisis concerning anthropology. What does it mean to be the human person? Well, one of the missing links there, if I could draw from the pagan Darwin, is that every human person, because they are created by God, is a worshiper inherently. And so, as we understand it, that primacy of humans being worshippers, again, helps us understand, explains things, and provides a pathway to solutions.
This is as old as you know, of course, the scriptures, but Augustine.
But we have a way of articulating it, I think, not in a prideful way, but to really get to the gist, as we say, of what's really going on there. And so now, even now, we have like a, I believe she was reared a Christian. She's not a Christian, I don't think, anymore. Christine Rosen at American Enterprise Institute. Her latest book is on we've extinguished our experience.
Experience is now extinct because we have this virtual reality that we're living in. Well, what she's describing is a gnostic functionality, and she's raising the flag going, what's going on? Carter Snead wrote about this. What does it mean to be human in terms of dealing with the vitality of life issues, medical ethics and all the rest? These are all questions of anthropology. And if we understand the creature creator distinction, if we understand Imago Dei, if we understand the totality of humanity as being a worshipful creature who will either worship the creator or some aspect of the creation, that provides clarity, it provides a light to our path. And so truth exchange is positioned to have tremendous explanatory power to the public.
We inform the public, but it also has great equipping power for those in the church and the saints. It gives us that thing. And so consequently, I think the future is very, very bright, because if the culture is dark, the light dissipates the darkness. John one.
[00:18:27] Speaker C: So I think what you're saying is so profound, Jeff, and it makes me think that two ism really presupposes worship. And in particular, everybody, if they are locating themselves in a tourist universe, will recognize that the universe does not create itself. People have to admit that they are in an intelligent universe. And what on earth does that say? Where does intelligence derive? And we have to think that other than us, there is a source of intelligence that gives our world the intelligent aspect that we all have to recognize. And I remember reading something quite convincing, that those scholars who analyzed the DNA code suddenly discovered that we were looking at the secret of our own existence as a code, as a rational communication using hundreds of thousands of elements that create human beings. Where on earth does this come from? It surely isn't, as Darwin said, chance. It's far too complicated for chance to give a decent explanation.
So we are faced with intelligence. It's not the result of chance. So what is it? Where does it derive? And that's where the scriptures, I think, bring us face to face with the God of two ism, that he is totally other than us. He is the source of intelligence. And we can know God, the intelligent one, through Jesus. And that becomes the incredible answer to human beings questioning about their own reality as worshippers, because they recognize intelligence.
And we can only describe intelligence by it being other than us. We didn't invent it. It did not evolve. It is there from whence comes intelligence, and it obviously comes from God, the creator.
[00:21:10] Speaker D: Yeah, see, if we don't have it, if we don't if we argue against that, it means that we're just a sound and fury signifying nothing. Because language, rationality, words have no meaning.
[00:21:22] Speaker C: The only way you can argue against it is to presuppose rationality.
[00:21:26] Speaker D: That's right.
[00:21:27] Speaker C: And there you have actually made the first move in the direction of God the creator.
[00:21:36] Speaker D: It's like the guy who said he could do whatever God does, you know, creating, creating man in the petri dish and humanity. And God looks at him and says, oh, no, no, no, you get your own dirt.
[00:21:49] Speaker A: So we truth exchange last year celebrated 20 years of ministry, wherever it began, with doctor Jones Bungee jumping from the bottom floor of the seminary window. And let's talk a little bit about that transition now as we look at protecting the future. We're asking the Lord to bless this ministry with another faithful, 20 years of faithful ministry. Mary, if you could engage with Doctor Jones as well as Doctor Ventrella about what transition looks like, as well as the next upcoming years for truth exchange.
[00:22:24] Speaker B: Sure.
I've laughed with you, Joshua, and I think I've said the same to Peter and to Jeff at certain points about how on one level, it feels so strange to be talking about some of this as a transition. Because, Jeff, since I've been with truth exchange, I started in 2008. So we're coming in on a solid 16 years of knowing and loving this ministry.
You've always been there. I remember managing my first think tank. I believe it was in 2009, the beginning of 2009, and I was still going through that revelatory process of, now I had come and I was working for the ministry.
I had begun to recognize that with some of what you had been talking about. Doctor Jones, I had thought that you were addressing things that were fringe.
Correct? But fringe, now I understood that, oh, no, this was not fringe. It was all around us. It was in the water we swim in. It was in the air that we breathe. And then I remember distinctly standing in the narthex at the first think tank that I managed. And, Jeff, you were a speaker. And I remember you taking the hermeneutic of truth exchange and breaking it down along the lines of how we could think ethically about issues of what in our culture we talk about is reproductive rights. And so there again, immediately for me, as a Christian who now I was being equipped, you had taken it and applied it to areas that I had. I had never, I knew that there were ethical questions, but I had not understood that our work at truth exchange could be applied in those areas. And that was another huge moment for me. So you've always been there.
There's always been this beautiful camaraderie and love and admiration between you and Doctor Jones that I've been witness to all these years. And so in a way, it's not that much of a transition, because you've been part of the fabric of what we were doing and what we were talking about for so long.
And yet there is this big transition in that, as we've put it before, Doctor Jones, so much of what you were talking about, what was coming, is now here. And so there's this new level of need to deal with things, and I. And as we look at what these next stages for truth exchange are now, some of that need to look far in advance, although it always exists, but some of that need to look far in advance and to tell us what's coming down the road now that's arrived, and we need to work to equip the church, to speak to it, to help the public.
[00:25:29] Speaker C: Go ahead, let me interject the fact that we are now living in a time that's discovering one ism and two ism, because now the terms are binary and non binary.
And that exactly means one is a mortuism.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:25:51] Speaker C: People say I'm non binary, that's. I'm not a twoist.
[00:25:55] Speaker B: Right.
[00:25:57] Speaker C: And then non binary for a whole series of things that applies especially to sexuality, and that's all over the place. But to say your binary is to affirm distinction, right? And this is a wonderful way that the message of truth exchange now gets a new expression that we didn't invent with the terms binary and nonbinary. And I think we're called upon in future days to ask what all that means, especially in terms of sexuality. So the Bible has so much to say about human beings and sexuality that it's not even funny, it's so precise, it's so profound.
We have so much to say about this issue because we're made in God's image and that makes us think about how God created us as male and female. So we're here, right, at the essence of what this culture is now discovering.
[00:27:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:09] Speaker C: That there is the phenomenon of one is of the binary and the non binary.
[00:27:16] Speaker B: Yeah. And what you're touching on, I think, is, you know, for us at truth exchange, Doctor Jones, there was that realization that for you, retirement was coming and that there started to be this ongoing and more and more urgent conversation about how the Lord has given this heritage to us, this thing that you started at its foundations, and that the immediacy of it. The immediacy of the need has not lessened, but instead it's intensified. And so there was this need for us and this conversation for years about who would take the reins.
[00:28:05] Speaker C: You mean I'm not a servant.
[00:28:11] Speaker B: As has been explained to me by my lovely boss, nobody is internal but the eternal one.
So there was this conversation, and I wonder if you remember as vividly as I do, some of the frustration that you and Joshua and Rebecca and Pam Frost and I were experiencing as there were lovely men, lovely brothers at various points, who we thought might be the approach, appropriate choice. Jeff was even involved in some of those conversations and those efforts to bring on to take up the reins, because you are aware that you're not eternal, that you can't keep doing this forever. And do you happen to remember any of the conversation when we started to realize that the one door we very much wanted to keep open was closing for us, that perhaps this other one with Jeff was opening? Do you happen to remember some of that, Doctor Jones?
[00:29:18] Speaker C: Well, I was totally surprised that Jeff was willing to leave his particular place of work and join us. That just blew me away. And Jeff is the perfect guy to take my place. And I'm just thrilled to bets that you, Jeff, decided to jump in and see a need and you're in the process of filling it. And I'm sure the Lord will bless you and cause you to go further and further in this new challenge that we have to take truth exchange to a second realization of itself.
[00:30:03] Speaker D: Well, thank you, Peter. That's encouraging, greatly encouraging, which maybe includes.
[00:30:10] Speaker C: This binary and non binary vocabulary that the world has adopted. But it only shows that we're right in line with the way the human beings have to think and we can take this ministry forward and Jeff is a perfect guy. It's the challenge of Jeff to take us to this new stage. And I know that he can do it.
[00:30:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I remember, Joshua, you had been tracking the fact that just in talking to Jeff in his capacity as the chairman of our board, and you were involved in the conversations and the efforts that we were making to bring someone in who we very much loved.
In the meantime, Jeff had gone on from Blackstone to some, some new ventures in his career. And I do remember you mentioning for the first time the possibility of what if, what if we could ask Jeff? You know, and, and all of our reaction, I think, I think you could ask anyone. All of our reaction was, well, that's a little out of our.
[00:31:24] Speaker A: He is a bit beyond us and I. Because in my thinking, Washington here is somebody who has experience with pastors. He's been involved in church planning.
He's theologically trained. So it wasn't somebody that I was having to check to make sure their work was theologically sound and to get us in trouble with, with various denominations.
He has a huge track history of engaging and informing the public, equipping saints, as well as engaging with young minds, young people from high school to college. So he has this great track record of God's blessing, his hand on his life in ministry and in service. And I thought, oh, if we could get Jeff, this would be fantastic.
[00:32:14] Speaker B: Yeah. And it seems like we were dreaming the impossible dream, to be honest.
[00:32:19] Speaker D: I sing that song.
[00:32:24] Speaker C: I would like to ask Jeff, what attracted you about the job we've offered you that you accepted? Jeff?
[00:32:31] Speaker D: Well, a number of things. One is that I could serve, I think, an important kingdom pressure point and that I could be walking my gifts and have that passion for the next generation and to see Christ's lordship help people understand what that looks like.
Also, I really like the idea of building upon foundations. Peter, you've established a foundation. You've thought deeply about this in a biblically faithful way. So I think that what I can add my little salt shaker here is to help take that to the next level, to instantiate it in avenues and venues beyond, because this thing needs to be understood quite broadly with respect to how Christendom is working today. I know I use Christendom just a shorthand for all the Christians in the world. Not any.
[00:33:33] Speaker C: I met somebody in church on Sunday who came up to me and said, you Doctor Jones? I said yes. He said I'm from Australia and I'm leaving to go back to Australia. And I thought, here's the example of what you were saying, jeff, this has gone worldwide and we need to keep pushing it.
[00:33:52] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:33:52] Speaker D: Well, a classic example of that was our mutual friend Martin Iles. I worked with Martin for years in Australia and now he's the co president or something and name successor to Ken Ham at answers in Genesis. But Martin has a deep appreciation.
The book one or two is profound in his shaping, his thinking and that you wrote. And so I anticipate once he gets a little more settled in the United States to begin talking about relationships, partnering and those sorts of things. I think the other thing that excited me about this position was working with the internal staff that I know, people I can trust don't have to be babysat. The professionalism, the decorum, they're not tossed every wind and which way of doctrine?
I think that there's some really unrooted people that are out there under the umbrella of ministry. I think that's really difficult and to navigate, but I feel comfortable with that, and I think we have a strong board that will continue to do it. So I think organizationally, I think theologically, I think the ability to walk in gifts is very important, because that way, the Lord, that's what he called us to do. And I, you know, as long as I've got breath in my lungs and blood in my veins, I'm. I want to go.
I want to see this go. I want to populate different areas. You know, I get. I was asked to speak at a very large evangelical church in a couple of weeks, their Sunday school program, Joshua, is sending out a packet of materials for us there. They have, like 500 people in their adult Sunday school. I mean, this is. This is, you know, really interesting stuff. They've never heard some of this stuff before, and they've certainly never connected it publicly to theology. And so what I want to be able to do is to take this wise man makes knowledge acceptable, and how we can explain what I've called in some of the recent dictas, the fundamental binary. I've started using that terminology, actually, because that's the creature creator distinction. And, you know, I learned that via the pen of Doctor van Till. And many of my mentors were taught by Doctor van Till. So it's kind of like part of my formation was that, that fundamental binary. And it really is helpful. The other thing I would say, peter, is there's a. There's something here that we don't always talk about, but it is very fundamentally important.
And that is that how we articulate that fundamental binary, what I call real reality or Paul's cosmological structure. The structure of reality is foundational to the gospel because the gospel presupposes the creational norms of God's creation. And if you go through the scripture, you see, he made. He's the creator who did that. It presupposes it. And that's how Paul went through the Areopagus, the God who made heaven and earth. You know, it's the same phrase he uses in Romans, right? Con theor Theon the gods. So this is. This is pretty important stuff when it comes to not only cultural apologetics, but also the redemption of individuals. And in my view, you know, the entire cosmos, right? Romans eight. So I. All those things excite me.
[00:37:29] Speaker C: That's the essence of the gospel, isn't it? Yes, that the other God, the other became one of us in order to save us. And so one ism and two ism is an essential statement of the gospel as well as describing to us the nature of the world in which we live.
[00:37:50] Speaker D: That's right. You can't have one without the other.
I'm convinced of that.
[00:37:55] Speaker B: What I'm seeing here, and I'm going to hearken back again to kind of the length of time that Joshua and I have spent with this ministry. Just in this conversation, you guys, is, is an answered prayer. And I think part of that is, and Joshua, I'll put words in your mouth a little bit, but I know that for Joshua and I, you know, we've joked, I joke that he's the extra little brother I never knew I needed.
But we've grown up together in this ministry under the leadership of Doctor and Misses Jones. Rebecca is a huge part of this ministry. And one of the desires that we both have had is to see you, Doctor Jones, honored in the way that this ministry is taken forward. And you know, I talked to you a little bit about some of the conversations in our house and some of the conversations that Joshua and I have had, is that the Lord has given you a heritage in truth exchange.
You are leaving a legacy and you've imprinted maturity and growth and gospel understanding on me and on Joshua in the ways that we are raising our own children.
And it's a scary thing to think about transitions. You know, we all hear stories sometimes about ministries that are taken over or that were, you know, drastically changed in a way that didn't honor that. The initial vision of the ministry when it was founded and what Joshua and I have talked about and what is I'm seeing right here as you two are talking and delights, my heart is that we have nothing had to deal with that here. Instead with hiring Jeff into the position that he has taken and seeing the way that he and Joshua work so beautifully together because they already knew each other, they already respected each other. And seeing you, Doctor Jones and Doctor Ventrella talk and kind of nerd out, in a way, you guys, you toss these ideas back and forth to each other out of excitement and love because you love each other and you love the Lord. To be given that kind of gift as a ministry is taken to sort of 2.0.
For me and Joshua, who have grown up with this ministry, love this ministry, hope to stay on with this ministry and to carry this work forward, I can't think of a more beautiful way for that to have happened than what we have going right here and what I'm witnessing yet again. As the two of you talk about your vision and your desire and your passion for the work of this ministry and I thank God for it. Joshua, I don't think that I've said anything that you, that I'm putting in your mouth inappropriately with my words. What's your take on it?
[00:41:16] Speaker A: No, I heartily say amen. And I agree. And I'm with you Mary. A number of years ago and there's been moments where we weren't sure if truth exchange was going to continue on past Doctor Jones. And I remember we all sat in our office at the time in Escondido and I said, this is the hill I'm willing to die on. I think the message that Peter has labored for is the message I want to see continue on. And I mean I moved my family thousands of miles from across country to establish this east coast presence. And having Jeff now come on staff, I've only been more encouraged and emboldened by what that ministry is. And so I'm happy to say even today as we, we look forward now to truth exchange 2.0. This is the message for the ages, for the church, for the public, for the future. And I'm very, very proud of where we are going. I thank the Lord for the opportunity to serve truth exchange.
[00:42:20] Speaker B: So yeah, yeah, it's just, it's beautiful you guys. It's a beautiful thing to work for a ministry that causes us to praise the Lord as we God work his will out here.
It's beautiful. And Doctor Jones, I love you.
I thank God for the work that he has done through you in my own life and the lives of the people around me. And I thank God for Jeff. I thank God for as I've begun to work with you Jeff, that every place we've gone, and I remember the first touch of it, it didn't surprise me, but it did delight me, was when we were together in DC, seeing you meet old students and then having that connection of oh, I'm working with truth exchange now. Do you remember the worldview training that you received? She works for Doctor Peter Jones as well. You know, like just that connection, the beautiful coherence of what the Lord has been doing and is doing now and that we continue to hope and have every reason to hope that he will do in the future because of the way that this has happened. It delights me. And I love you brothers. And I'm thankful and I'm honored to be working with all of you.
[00:43:49] Speaker D: Thank you, Mary. That's touching and in all the right ways. I appreciate it.
[00:43:56] Speaker A: This has been the Truth Exchange podcast, the unique program where we have conversations about worldview all through the lens of one ism and two ism. I'm your host, Joshua Guillotine. Be sure to join us next week for another edition of the Truth Exchange podcast. For more weekly resources from Truth Exchange, please join
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